Guantanamo activists facing court case

Comments

8 responses to “Guantanamo activists facing court case”

1. 

   May 6, 2006

   fehodeode

   Sometimes a fine or deterrance can be a good thing, if it inspires activists to ask at least one person in the street, or to read at least one newspaper, so that they have at least a general idea of what’s going on…

   I would have joined you in protesting Donald Rumsfeld & Co – when they choose to visit on a day of celebration of 100 years of peace and independence (vis-a-vis Sweden, anyway) – but not in spectacularly accusing the king of something he never did or were a part of.

   Do your homework next time, guys! 🙂

   Reply
2. 

   May 6, 2006

   Johannes Wilm

   Hey Torstein,
   as we probably have discussed already , the sources for what was going on that day was the official webpage of the 100th anniversary celebration ( http://www.hundrearsmarkeri… ).As you can still see, for June 7th it lists: kl. 10.00-14.30: Parade på Karl Johan, Forsvaret hedrer Stortinget under minnemøtet (Parade on the Karl Johann street, The Norwegian Defense honors the Norwegian parliament under the memorial). No mention of the king there (it mentions though that members of the royal family will be inside the parliament 10:35). In addition emails were send out to most of Oslo’s left wing lists that morning warning about some upcoming actions at the "parade" — a few hundred people knew about it, and some also showed up.

   Besides — the king is a representative of the country as such, also if he has been stripped of most of his rights. If he cannot represent the country any longer due to some of its inhumane politics, he always has the option to step down. This action was not about the king in any way, but that does for me personally not mean that the king is to be seen as a political figure who has to be kept out of all political discourse and action.

   Interestingly, I receive more support for this viewpoint from my unpolitical or conservative friends living overseas, than from certain so-called "revolutionary" elements on the Norwegian left.

   Reply
3. 

   May 6, 2006

   fehodeode

   Well..
   If understanding a local tradition or situation requires that you have at least a minimum of local knowledge, something that most people in faraway places don’t have, then it’s no wonder you get more support from them for making a fool of yourselves.

   During mu lunchbreak that day (June 7) I was in fact there, waiting for a while for the king, but I didn’t bother to hang around untill he finally arrived. However, I think almost everyone present knew what all the fuzz was about, namely the king driving by. Not even the most senselessly drunk of the graduates ("russ") were left out on this little piece of information.

   But for heaven’s sake: Focus on the positive side. You could have been shot there, all of you, for plain stupidity! 🙂

   Reply
4. 

   May 6, 2006

   Johannes Wilm

   Exactly — it’s the traditions that stand in the way for many Norwegian "revolutionaries" — but traditions have no other purpose than to be broken. How should one change anything and create "another world" without breaking them? Traditions are much more fluid, applied relatively arbitrary and subject to constant change than what many traditionalists would like it to have. Take an example: up until recently, it was the tradition not to disturb memorial celebrations with political actions. If other activists do things at one or two other likewise official events, the Norwegian tradition will exactly be use to exploit those kinds of events. It’s not more complicated than that.
   But why are my foreign friends important? Because the event was part of the official CNN/Reuters presentation of the Norwegian 100th anniversary celebrations ( href="http://www.google.com/searc… ):

   "Several hundred people waving Norwegian flags clapped as King Harald, on his first official duty since a heart operation in April, and Queen Sonja drove in sunshine to parliament for a ceremony marking the 1905 split.
   As they left, six people were arrested for lying down in the street in protest at a visit to NATO-member Norway by U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld later on Tuesday. Police said Harald’s car was not hindered."

   This was what the world heard about the protest. Had no-one done anything that day in one of the central events, it would not have meant that the protests in Stavanger (where Rumsfeld was that day) had been mentioned either and no-oe would have heard about any oppositon to the Bush administration (except 4.5 million Norwegians).

   And isn’t it funny how it was no problem for CNN/Reuters to figure out what the protest was about or that that there was never any danger for the activists (nor anyone else), while Norwegian papers such as VG/Dagbladet/NRK…and also most people at Klassekampen (a newspaper called "class war") had quite a hard time figuring out what we were protesting about, what kinds of people we were, that there was no way in hell we would have been shot at that day or that the protest actually ended up being succesful.

   Reply
5. 

   May 7, 2006

   fehodeode

   Hm – maybe it’s a little bit too easy to merely add an «IST» after every word someone says, and thus make an ideological soup or stew out of it.

   I am aware of the local tradition of lining the main street with royal guard and/or soldiers for special occations involving the king, simply because I’ve been living in Oslo for 16 years. I’ve had friends standing there with a gun, guarding the king and his men.

   So I am aware of this tradition, but does that make me a «traditionalist»? Nah. And although I live in a nation – am I therefore a «nationalist»? Hardly.

   But speaking of The Nation: I found out 15 years ago that my love for my country is about 95% a sense of love and belonging to the landscape. I.e to mother nature, and not to any local or national culture. It does get a bit more complicated, though: I also found out that this goes for lots of other Norwegians as well. They, too, focus more on «free nature» when they say they love Norway. And that makes me love them, also, so in that sense I love some very minute parts of Norwegian culture: The parts of it that says nature is bigger than culture, which are also the parts of Norwegian «nationalism» that distinguish our sense of nation from most continental nationalisms.

   You could also say that I love Norway in the same way a visiting mountaineer from the Netherlands loves Norway.

   But back to traditions and understanding local phenomena. Let’s say you are not aware of the rites of the Russ – the graduates from highschool – who mainly dress in red jumpsuits in May. So you stumble upon a few hundreds of them down on main street, in the nation’s capital, and you automatically assume there is a revolution going on.

   You rush back home to your flat to get out your AK47 Revolution Rifle, and hurry back to join in on the fun. And you make a fool of yourself again, and with your AK47 you will most certainly be shot first, and asked questions later.

   I take it you catch my point by now – that some degree of local knowledge and know-how can be of use, even for a flaming soul like yourself.

   I could go on… And why not? You bring up so many interesting debates here, that I’d like to add a few more paragraphs.

   You say «traditions have no other purpose than to be broken». That’s presumably a pretty tounge-in-cheek claim from your side, but let’s assume it’s your true position. The basis for such a claim would have to be along these lines: «There is nothing good in the past, and the future will always be better than what has been.»

   I think a quote from Leonard Cohen would suffice as my response here: «I’ve seen the future, baby, it is murder.»

   Now, I accept your judgement on «global action» or a global mindset, and on the Orange Jumpsuit demo as a success. All I say is you left most Osloers pretty missed and confused as to what you were trying to accomplish there and then. But I think it’s a very amusing story… 🙂

   It also feeds into the great fact / illusion debate. When you see a newsclip on CNN, what do you really know about what actually took place on the spot? I’ve been to a squatter demo in front of the City Hall a couple of years ago, where the police peppersprayed the croud first, and then the croud answered in shock and fury by throwing snowballs back at the police. In the evening, on the NRK news, it was the other way around: After bravely suffering dozens of pretty hard snowballs from the rabid revolutionaries, the police were forced to defend themselves by spraying teargas* on the crowd.

   *) The stuff in our eyes was definitely pepperspray, but pepperspray wasn’t officially introduced in Norwegian law enforcement until about a year later. But because of the outbreak of war that same spring, I had the darn thing in my eyes every fortnight or so.

   So the mass media is in so many ways the Big Illusion – the Big Lie. And so – somehow – there must have been a better time in the past, before the mass media came about. And as you know, TV was conceived – by your countrymen, as a matter of fact – as a propaganda tool, and it has been used as a one-way propaganda tool ever since. And people in rural areas of Norway who seldom see «a darkie» or an immigrant, are much more likely to be racists and hostile to foreigners than the people who live in urban areas, with a mixed population. All because of the illusion and fear created by the media.

   Finally, I just want to add that Marxism is outdated and a thing of the past. The hip and happening wave of the hour is of course <a href="http://fehodeode.blogspot.c…">BRUSKASSISME</a>. It is the simple, universal solution to all challenges and injustices. It is cheap. And it tackles the problems on the spot, right there and then.

   Reply
6. 

   May 7, 2006

   Johannes Wilm

   Torstein wrote:
   "I am aware of the local tradition of lining the main street with royal guard and/or soldiers for special occations involving the king, simply because I’ve been living in Oslo for 16 years."

   Well that is part of an explanation, but not a full explanation. Other activists have been living in Oslo their entire life, but did not have any clue about what was going on that day or what the soldeirs meant, etc.. It is one of the typical features of nationalism: you generalize over a group such as 4.5 million people (and this is a small country), of which you only know a very tiny fraction.

   And if it’s all just about nature for you and your group of friends, then I am sure that you’ll let me announce to a few hundred thousand travelers who live in Germany (and only speak German), but who come up here and walk through the country’s nature at least as much as the average Norwegian does, that they are starting today invited to be counted as being part of the Norwegian nation…

   The idea of being able to categorize people into clearly defined categories is another feature of nationalism such as when you say:

   "And as you know, TV was conceived – by your countrymen, as a matter of fact – as a propaganda tool, and it has been used as a one-way propaganda tool ever since."

   Interesting, now if only I knew what nationality you ascribe to me in this statement. Am I Us American? Am I German? at least I’m pretty sure you don’t count me as Danish. Or were you refering to Danish Peter Jensens invention of the loudspeaker (1915)?

   When you say: "All I say is you left most Osloers pretty missed and confused as to what you were trying to accomplish there and then." I can only say, that I think it’s interesting that you believe you know and understand most Oslo-people personally.

   In concerns of the media:
   Do you remember when we were demonstrating in Prague, Czech Republic, trying to shut down the World Bank + IMF meeting? (I actually don’t know if you went on that trip, but I’m sure you heard all about it) Which press did not get anything and just talked about the demonstrators as vandalizing monsters? The Czech press of course — the Norwegian and other international press had no problem distinguishing between the few vandalizers and the huge mass of protestors who actually had a cause.
   Which press had nothing good to say about the demonstrations in Gothenburg, Sweden against the European Union 2001 conference? The Swedish press of course — everyone else got the point. Who was negative towards the "globalization from below" demonstrations in Copenhagen, Denmark December 2002 again against the EU conference — the Danish press of course, while everyone else got the point.
   In Nice, Genoa, … even in Oslo, Norway summer 2002 the pattern repeated (the only exception benig that in Oslo the press was negative all the way up until the demonstrations started, then they were somewhat more positive while the International press didn’t care about the demonstrations at all — probably cause we placed them here despte the fact that there was actually real conference to protest against in Oslo).
   "The revolution will not be televised" — at least not on any of the national channels.

   I guess the difference between us is, as you said: I look for all good in the future, while you you fear the future and therefore would like the past to come back.

   Reply
7. 

   May 8, 2006

   fehodeode

   The most immediate prospects of a revolution you will see in this decade, is the 9/11 Truth revolution.

   When all the lies of September and October (the Anthrax mail terror) 2001 come tumbling down like them Twin Towers, there will be a revolution like nothing we’ve ever seen in modern history.

   And this time the revolution WILL be televized, on all channels, all over the world. It’s already been blogged and webcast for a couple of years, but when the shit finally hits the proverbial fan, TV will be there on the spot.

   And good times will be had by all… Except for the 9/11 criminals and plotters, of course. And the Quislings of every nation.

   So it’s not like I «fear» the future. It’s just that there’s no reason to think that 2007 will be any better than 1907 or 1807 or 007. The odds are it will be far worse, but with a couple of laughs and grins of poetic justice thrown in.

   But AFTER the 9/11 Truth revolution, who knows what we’ll see in the world. Maybe some kind of Hugo Chavez style communal people’s rule system, reminiscent of the literal meaning of the word ‘folkestyre’ (democracy).

   The only problem with people’s rule is that there are other things than people, and people will always rule in their own narrow self-interest.

   Reply
8. 

   June 29, 2006

   fehodeode

   Here are some who have done much the same thing, in Vermont, USA. Only they threw in a protest against the 9/11 Whitewash Commission as well.

   http://www.sevendaysvt.com/…

   Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.