So there we go. I interviewed a representative of a progressive party on either side of the divide, and their answers were remarkably similar.

Let us review their answers once more:

PM: Paul Maskey (Sinn Fein)
HS: Hugh Smyth (HS)

housing:

HS: not opposed to rich apartments, but percentage needs to be affordable
PM: not against private houses, but more social housing

parks and roads:

HS: no issue currently, under direct rule not enough funding
PM: various departments need to think more together, under British direct rule it wasn't thought through

unemployment:

HS: lowest unemployment for over 50 years/ever, more apprenticeships (two year government program)
PM: built more hotels, tourism, insure employment opportunities for young people

healthcare:

HS: way behind, but current budget a lot better than under direct rule
PM: some very good, a lot very poor, way better now with local minister

11+ exam:

HS: don't scrape it before satisfactory alternative, party is split
PM: for area based education system, might work some places and not in others

drugs/anti-social behavior:

HS: more money for councilors/youth workers (no budget cuts)
PM: has a lot to do with war, more money for councilors/youth services also from other government departments, all-Ireland approach

joy riding:

HS: more police presence needed
PM: part of youth worker program

police:

HS: not sufficient men, need more funding
PM: party is going onto police boards to make them concerned about their issues

working class representation:

HS: better now than ever, but not good enough
PM: yes, his representing working class

What one might have expected is that Smyth is faith in the positive role the British police plays, whereas Maskey is more interested in an all-Ireland approach to fighting anti-social behavior. But besides such minor points, the two seem to have virtually the same program: apprenticeships/work opportunities for young people, more cheap housing without prohibiting rich people form building altogether, emphasis on investment in health care overall positive expectations from local rather than direct rule. In fact, under most other circumstances one would expect them to form a party together in order not to confuse the voter with too many similar choices. The reason that that wouldn't work in this case is obviously that the militia groups connected with the two parties have too long a history of killing one-another.

For any progressive group from the outside though, it seems silly to be supporting one but not the other of these two. If anything, one should demand from the two to be cooperating on a parliamentary level and to work together to form majorities for their common points.

At the same time, while sounding thoroughly social democratic in their view points, different from the Schröders and Blair's of this world, none of their immediate action program points to any revolutionary ambitions. Now one may say that's good, especially in this case where undoubtably revolutions would be connected with endless bloodshed, and it is true that a coalition of these two would certainly be an improvement to today's situation. But in the sense of revolutionary as setting forth a program that would transport one beyond capitalism, the parliamentary work of parties such as these will likely not suffice.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, yeah, the first thing is I noticed when walking around
  there was quite a bit of graffiti against gentrification.

Paul Maskey

• ok

Johannes Wilm

• ehm, there are apparently apartment buildings that eh... are
  for the let's say those who have more money.

Paul Maskey

• mhm

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm... whereas others complain about lack of public
  housing.

Paul Maskey

• mhm

Johannes Wilm

• What's your policy on that?

Paul Maskey

• Well, my... our policy on that it's... I mean there needs to be
  more social housing.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Paul Maskey

• Ehm... there is clearly not enough. In West Belfast there is an
  area which I represent, there's almost 3000 people on the waiting
  list. And it's gone up year on year. Ehm, so them figures keep on
  increasing, so we're arguing and lobbying... ehm, the government
  department follow it, to create more social housing, ehm... and to
  reduce the waiting lists, and they need to do it in a number of
  manors and a number of ways, and it-it it's not, I mean you will
  see ehm... private apartments, private houses going up, and that's
  OK. We're not arguing against that, well, we argue because a lot of
  the stuff that's happening now is a lot of cargo[?] space being
  taken away from our community

Johannes Wilm

• mmm...

Paul Maskey

• wherefore[?] there could have been houses are being demolished,
  to put up where you maybe had 1 or 2 houses maybe 30 or 34 or 36-40
  apartments, which is a clear case of over-development, because to
  create... it's not about building houses, it's about building
  communities, that's where we want to be, because if there's homes,
  there need to be schools, there needs to be shops, there needs to
  be employment opportunities, there needs to be doctor surgeries,
  there need to be dentists. You need to build communities, so there
  has to be more thought put[?] into areas and communities, because
  we have areas in West Belfast under British direct rule, we have
  areas like Trimble and Pulgas, that're just thousands of
  houses put up, no amenities, no facilities, not one child park
  within the emares[?] for kids to play in. And it's a disgrace. So
  we should not allow that to happen and we are trying now to say if
  you're going to mend[?] and you wanna develop in our areas and in
  our communities, then you have to show us the plan. But not a plan
  for just the homes, for the other amenities from... that's obvious,
  we're very strong advocates for that.

Johannes Wilm

• How about public unding funding for infrastructure like roads
  and public parks and so on.

Paul Maskey

• Yeah, I mean that quite important. There's many different
  government departments. The problem is, they all work in
  isolation. They work like a sailor-defact[?] where one department
  will do this and another department will do that. There's not
  enough crossover between inter... ehm.. work between different
  government department. What I'm trying to urge all government
  departments, is that they need to work collectively, because
  there's no point in... If I'm one government department providing
  houses, there's no point in me working in isolation from health or
  social development or-or whether it's interesting for trade and
  stuff. You have to work together and show each other plans so you
  know the communities of, to make sure that the roads for example are
  not... because if want to build a thousand homes, then there need
  to be that proper road infrastructure, needs to be taken out[?],
  and there needs to be the proper bus links, is there rail links, is
  there.. ehm a rapid transit system needs to be put in to reduce the
  ehm... the cars going o our roads every day. So all that has to be
  worked together. So yes, we are very much urged all government
  departments to inter... eh. interlink to ensure that all them
  problems are addressed from a very early stage. We cannot build a
  housing estate with a thousand homes in it and then think about
  everything else. That has to be incorporated in it.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, now industry over the last twenty years, you have had sort
  of a rapid decline in...

Paul Maskey

• yeah...

Johannes Wilm

• I think Harland & Wolfe, Shorts, Mackies...

Paul Maskey

• yeah...

Johannes Wilm

• is there anything the government should do about that?

Paul Maskey

• Yes, [?] area where I represent in west Belfast, including the
  Shankill, where there is a lot of areas that are in social need. If
  you live in West Belfast, you're more likely to be unemployed than
  you do in other areas. If you live in West Belfast you're more
  likely to die earlier than you do in other areas. So all that
  factor has to be factored in so, and employment is a great
  opportunity, so yes, I do believe that the government needs to be
  looking at creating industry, and there's different facets...
  industry has many different facets, where we can look at for
  example in areas of West Belfast, they need to be... If it's
  foreign direct investment they need to be steered toward areas of
  social need, because that's where it's gonna have the best effect;
  that's where it's gonna lift communities to the level of everywhere
  else and that creates employment opportunity. There's different
  levels of... and I say, and I look at West Belfast, for example in
  the Shankill industry, I count tourism as an industry. Tourism is a
  massive industry, if we get our act together. People [?] places in
  West Belfast cause there's thousands and thousands of people every
  year coming to see West Belfast, because they've seen it on TV;
  they've all seen the Falls road; they've all seen -- maybe for the
  wrong reasons or the real one[?], whatever the reason is, but
  they've seen it anyway, so there's a curiosity factor between the
  Shankill and the Falls Road area. And many thousands of people will
  come to see those two roads. But there's not one hotel int he two
  areas. So the tourists will come in, but they can't stay, so they
  can't spend more money in that community, so the local shop can't
  benefit from it, the local restaurant can't benefit from it, the
  local bars can't benefit from it, because people come in and they
  got a bowl... or what you call a face bowl scenario, where you
  buses driving in thousands of people, people looking at the
  windows and then driving back out again. The local community can't
  benefit from that. So government need to get real, when it's coming
  to tourism. They need to start looking at locating hotels within
  our areas where people can stay. That's one part, and then we're
  gonna see what's gonna happen. Because in Belfast alone, tourism
  sustains 16000 jobs. Now we want some of them jobs to be sustained
  in West Belfast.

Johannes Wilm

• OK, ehm. Another issue: the NHS..

Paul Maskey

• mhm

Johannes Wilm

• do you feel that it's good enough...

Paul Maskey

• no

Johannes Wilm

• as it is?

Paul Maskey

• It's not good. Ehm... some areas of it are very good and some
  areas are very poor. My own father was in the hospital, just over a
  year ago with a chest infection, and get taken out two weeks later
  dead because of all the infections that they get in hospital. Now
  that's very very poor. It's very poor where people who can go in
  the hospital and come out either sicker than what they went in or
  in fact dead in many cases. Now that's very poor, and that's basic
  medication stuff. Some of our medical services are second to none.
  In fact some of them are world class. But you can have all your
  world class facilities, but your people can die due to nearly[?]
  uncleanliness and bugs what they're catching when they go in to
  the hospital. So that has that effect on it. So, the waiting lists
  are coming down, some of them are gone with, but there is a fact
  where you can wait for maybe a year for minor surgery, but it's a
  service which there is an acute need to be overhauled. It needs
  to be improved. And I do believe that under the fourth[?]
  government, which we have now, we'll actually make that happen.
  Cause the local minister, the minister for health, is somebody from
  Belfast. We can argue with him, we can have a word on a daily basis
  and tell him: 'you must improve this'. So I think it will get
  better. It need to improve. But it's a sad indictment on the health
  service, when people can die, coming to the hospital.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm.. And in education, currently there has been a debate about
  the 11+ exam

Paul Maskey

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm... Where you in Northern Ireland have had a somewhat
  different system than what one has had in most of England

Paul Maskey

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• What's you position on that?

Paul Maskey

• Well, my position is that the 11+ doesn't work. It hasn't
  worked; it's failed. It works in some areas. But again I have to go
  back to areas, including the Shankill, in the year 2001, 1 child --
  and now it is an area of social deprivation. It's an area of need.
  One child in the Shankill in the year 2001 passed the 11+. So I
  have to say: why does on one one child pass that? Because it tells
  you that there's needs going in there, it also tells you that
  that's... it failed, it might work in some areas, but it fails many
  people from the areas like what I represent in West Belfast,
  including the Shankill. And other areas also. Because people cannot
  afford extra tuition for their kids, so if you come from a working
  class or a middle class background you can't afford for your child
  to get extra education[?] on a Saturday or some evenings. But if
  you come from an area where there's social need and you can't
  afford to do that and then your child goes automatically ehmm.. I
  suppose disenfranchised, because you can't give that. So that tells
  you that if you come from a rich background, the 11+ is good,
  because you can get your child higher. But if you come from a
  poorer background, you can't give your child the best bargain. So
  what I want to do is to ensure that everybody at that age has
  equal... because equality is central to having sustainable futures
  and sustainable development for us all. And equality in that is
  that every child at eleven... because remember it's called the 11+,
  I have two... I've had two kids who would do, who have done the
  11+. But they've done it at the age of ten, so the fact that it's
  called the 11+... All kids who do it are ten, there's very few of
  them who'll actually be eleven ears of age. They're eleven when
  they leave primary school to go secondary school. But they've done
  their test many, many months prior to it. So most of them are ten,
  so I can't see how you can decide the child's future at the age of
  ten, to say that's the school you're gonna go to, you'll work at
  that school and that's the best school for you. It's very hard, and
  I think it's unfair on many of our children and it's indictment. I
  think the change.. there is a radical change, needs to be happening
  within our education, because too many kids are coming out of
  school, even secondary school, worse than what they've been before
  in primary school. So there is a lack of basic skills, and I think
  that the current minister, CaitríonaRuan, will go along the
  way to change it. She is currently consulting every... and the most
  important thing about the 11+ is, every parent who's child is
  coming up will get a chance to feed in to the constipation process.
  So every parent will have a say. Every child will have a say. And
  every school will have a say, cause all the areas are different and
  all the areas will demand difference in education, and that's the
  way it should work, because area based education system will
  probably work out better than one size, that's all

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, but mainly that is then importing the English... the
  English version of it, isn't it?

Paul Maskey

• Well, I mean. Ok, all I'm saying is there can be many versions
  of it. Also, what I'm also saying, there's different parts of West
  Belfast might need a different education system from other parts of
  West Belfast, so we shouldn't have necessarily the bigger picture
  anywhere up. We know what we need. Our school doing emphitament[?].
  Most of them will exactly know what demands are of the communities,
  and they should be able to put in area based plans to actually move
  into the future, because we need our kids... And I think this will
  be a radical overhaul. I think, if done right, other countries can
  actually learn from this model, if done right, wearing simple
  members[?].

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, staying in the area of kids. The. your local paper here
  writes about that there is an excessive amount of anti-social
  behavior and drug abuse.

Paul Maskey

• Yeah, I mean that's local papers writing. I'll have to say that
  Belfast is no worse off than any other city in the world. In fact,
  you can go back three or four years ago, Belfast was thought the
  third safest city in the world, even for visitors to come to see,
  so it's no worse than anywhere. So in fact it's a lot safer than
  most of the other cities throughout the world. Which is...

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Paul Maskey

• Which is very important because of where we come from. We came
  from a war-torn society, and we're only recently over that. And we
  are still a suicide[?]. But however, there is anti-social behavior
  and drugs...

Johannes Wilm

• it's the Anderson Town News

Paul Maskey

• Yeah, yeah, in the Anderson Town News yeah. And there is... And
  we can't deny there's drug dealing, and there is car crime. There
  is. People die through the car crime. But I have to say this: The
  British government has allowed it to go on for too long, under
  direct rule. They have allowed... Because what they've done is...
  And I know what they've done, and even in Belfast city center for
  example, where you've people who've maybe caught where you've
  people maybe drinking in Belfast city center. The PSNI, which is
  the police service, will have pushed them out of the city center
  into areas like West Belfast, and they had a... they didn't cur[?]
  and they didn't try to say 'no, you shouldn't be drinking, now you
  should move out[?]'... So what they were doing was they were
  funneling[?] people in from other parts of the city, city center,
  into areas like West Belfast, and say: well, that's good enough for
  them and that was the mentality behind our police service here for
  many, many years. But now people are saying: no, we've had enough.
  We're not gonna allow it to happen. We're not gonna allow West
  Belfast to be treated anywhere else... than any other part of the
  city. But again, employment opportunities... we re... if you come
  from an area of social need and you come from an area, you will
  find that there's always more crime and more anti-social behavior.
  There's more drug problems, there's more socializers providing more
  alcoholics. But we have to remember we have come from a war, many
  people from this community, that I represent, fought in that war
  for many, many years. Many of our young people, who are now coming
  to da[?], father's and mother's fought against Britain. And, so
  them side, where some of the young people are saying, well my mo...
  my parents may have done that, what am I to do? You know. And so
  there's attitudes where other people are coming through, in the
  other end of a war saying: we need to walk... move into the future.
  But I think it's very, very important to always remember that under
  direct rule, Britain... British ministers who were imposing part[?]
  here, didn't occur. They didn't invest. There was no massive
  employers in West Belfast. Like you had in East Belfast. You had
  Harland & Wolf, and you mentioned earlier on, in it's heyday
  they had between 40 and 50000 working that place. Most of them are
  from protestant communities, very few were from nachments[?].
  Mackies, as well, was another protestant site. Shorts, the majority
  of people worked there, were protestants. People from this area,
  would never have had a chance to get a job in some of them places.
  And yet, government didn't try to promote... or even try to promote
  any other investments in these areas; neglected them, so we're
  still trying to come out of the other end of that. And we will do,
  but it will take a while for that to happen.

Johannes Wilm

• eh, somewhat related, the BBC recently reported on a dramatic
  increase in teenage suicides in Northern Ireland. What's your
  response to that?

Paul Maskey

• Well our response to that is ehm we have... in fact Gerry Adams
  in an MP for West Belfast who has worked perilously regarding trying
  to get a strategy. And even to try to get a strategy built up, that
  came against opposition from British direct rule ministers. they
  didn't want to put investment into it. They didn't want to look at
  it. as... So I mean Gerry... Gerry Adams has lobbied very very
  strong on behalf of that. We now have a couple of places in West
  Belfast. But there's one in the Falls Road called Suicidal Worlds,
  it's open 24 hours. People who are feeling suicidal can now call in
  say, a drop-in center, people can call in, the can lift the phone
  up and speak to us[?] on the other end of the phone. An that's now
  happening. And that's where we're at so... But it's not enough. The
  policy and the strategy, because I know some of the places you may
  touch on later on as we need... because Ireland is a fairly small
  country, and we're gonna have a policy which may work in 26
  counties, which is... between the Republic[?] of Ireland and
  policies here. We need an all-Ireland approach to it. We need to be
  serious about that issue because the same issues are affecting
  people who are living in Dublin as well. The suicide rate has gone
  up. So what we wanna do is make sure we're capping[?] on them
  issues. Because we're gonna learn from other places and what
  they've done as well. So we need an all-Ireland approach. We need
  funding on an all-Ireland basis. We need to insure that all the
  mechanisms are being put into place. And again, employment
  opportunities as well. Because young people who don't seem to have
  a future, in their own mind don't have a future. So there's
  goodmoon-bloom[?]in some of the young people's minds. So it's about
  lifting it, it's about giving them equal opportunities, giving them
  employment opportunities, education opportunities a whole lot and I
  think hopefully you can help address that issue. But it needs to be
  done on an all-Ireland basis.

Johannes Wilm

• Right, also, another thing that young people do is
  joy-riding...

Paul Maskey

• yeah...

Johannes Wilm

• apparently, which is that you make stunts in your car and then
  you film it and put it on the internet

Paul Maskey

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• Which is apparently a trend here

Paul Maskey

• Yeah, it's trend... It was wore going back many years ago, back
  a number of years ago. So it's actually started to reduce. But
  there's been a number of people killed through it, and I wouldn't
  call it joy-riding. The term I in all honesty would put on it is
  death riding. Because death riders have actually killed a number of
  people, including children within our communities. I think it's a
  scourge; I have no time or sympathy sometimes with regards to it.
  But however, we need to look at where's actually [?] with it. It
  has reduced. And the unfortunate thing with modern technology can
  bring many odd things to haunt us, because kids can now use this as
  a tool -- their phones. As a [?] they now can put on their Bebo
  sites and get it done. They get a kick out of this. And they get,
  so... I mean some times modern technology is great in many aspects,
  and... unfortunate, most of us can't live without our blackberries
  or mobile phones or computers and even your tape recorder -
  mp3-player and stuff, we can't really live without them now. But
  it's sometimes a bad, because it gives people the easier
  opportunities, whether they're trying to get young people to do
  internet sex, or whether whether they're taking video recordings of
  bad things happening to get a kick out of it. So... but we need,
  obviously, to have [?] in place. Thankfully joyriding has reduced,
  but it's not, it's not stopped completely.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, and yet, local media reports that in the draft budget of
  the department of education , the budget for the Youth Service will
  be reduced by 4.8%?

Paul Maskey

• No, it's actually... Well, it was. And the minister actually
  fought very hard in the program for government. And that was a
  draft, on the real one, that's been brought back. It's got
  embasement 4.8 million pound in that budget, which is exactly the
  amount that that equates to. So that's now back, as long, cause
  minister CaitríonaRuane fought very hard with it with her
  colleges on the executive to ensure that that... because youth is
  very , very important to us. So, that is now back. But, we need a
  long-term strategy, and again, go back to the point we were talking
  on earlier on, cause education is only one point of youth services.
  Other government departments need to be coming buying[?] the
  service of youth service because youth service really is to combat
  anti-social behavior, it relates to our kids being brilliant people
  for the future. It can relate to... it can help address, the issues
  of avoiding suicide. It can help many, many issues, but so other
  government departments have to buy in, because government
  departments only have so much money as well, but if they would buy
  in collectively from other agencies within government, and the will
  have to address that.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, we sort of touched it before, but what's your general idea
  about the police. Do you have... As they are now, do you have
  confidence and trust in that they're concerned about your areas and
  your issues?

Paul Maskey

• Well, I have to say they're not fully concerned about, but
  we're gonna make them concerned about. We're gonna... cause we've
  taken on a job now within, within this last year, let's say where
  we're gonna go on to the boards, policing boards, we're gonna go on
  to the district policing partnerships. We're not gonna be
  spectators, like everybody else was on them prior to it. We're
  going on to give a lot of finger pointing to people and say: 'You
  have a job to do, and you better start doing it! Because if you're
  not gonna start doing it, then there will be a prize to pay!' And
  the thing to say in the communities I represent: very few people
  trust the police; even just the... And we're now saying: 'right,
  we're bringing the PSNI in, and I meet them as well on regular
  basis to tell them the issues and that they don't meet them issues,
  and they don't meet their targets, and then the question is put to
  them: 'Why have you not met that target before?' So we're there to
  tell them to. We're not there to be spectators; we're not there
  watching them and saying 'yes, you've done a great job'. We're
  there to tell them to[?] and we will continue to do that, until
  they start to get it in their own head. That we need to be doing
  this; we need to be working, cause policing is best suited at
  community level. The community must be involved at all levels of
  policing, because I think we come back[?] to the education issue --
  there's nobody who knows this community like the people who live in
  this community. They know what the issues are. They how some tend
  to tackle them issues, so the police face now needing to listen to
  the community to actually move forward. And that's what we've
  fosessed[?] on, that's what we've embarked on, and that's what
  we're gonna continue to do, until we get it right. Policing will
  never be right; policing is always wrong, and there'll always be
  crime. You can't stop crime by 100%, but we will lurk[?] that they
  make sure, that they help address the issues in our
  communities.

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, and very last question: Do you feel that the working class
  is sufficiently politically represented as it is today?

Paul Maskey

• Well, yes. I mean I come from a working class background. I'm a
  socialist; I represent the socialist party. I... In West Belfast
  for example, there's 6 MLAs, 5 are from SinnFein. The MP for the
  area is a socialist. So, I mean we are using them uble[?]., because
  I talked to you earlier about areas of social need, right? The
  couple of ministers working together. I raise areas of social need
  at every single level, I can do so at the assembly. Any commite I
  will run, I will speak of areas of social need, as well as other
  areas as well. But I... But before, that was never challenged and
  never pushed. So what we're doing now as a party is actually
  represent the area. For me as a socialist for example, I have to
  represent the area, but I have to live by my socialist values. When
  I look at the assembly for example, there's a wage of 30-40,000
  pounds in times[?] leading up to 50,000 pounds. I don't take that;
  the party gets my wage. So the party simply take my wage, and they
  give me a living wage, just as a small wage. So I'm not a big
  career politician, I'm here because I wanna represent the people in
  the area where I live and the people who I know and love so much.
  And that's where my feeling is.. I-I give my money away, and I take
  a living wage. The party take that and give me a living wage. Other
  people: I get the same amount of money that Gerry Adams gets, as
  the party president. As a minister, there's ministers, we have a
  number of ministers in the assembly. They get the same wage as me.
  Somebody working in this office, they'll get the same wage as me,
  and the same wage as .. there's no difference. So we have to
  look... That's all equal. So we will insure, that any issues what
  we're drawn out of that, that's socialists. And we will have to
  insure that them policies are brought into the assembly as well.
  And I love that, and I want that, any stuff I wanna argue for is on
  them same principles. I do admit the fact that we have to be
  economic, the economic evolvement of the North is very crucial
  point. And inv... Even private investment is very important for
  the long term sustainability of Ireland. So I do recognize that fact
  as well. And we have t work on them sectors as well. It's very,
  very important whether that incorporates, but I represent a working
  class community will do so and we do represent cases on behalf of
  my constituency on a daily basis.

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, Thank you very much

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, here we go... ehm.. yeah...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Who.. what are you enquiring?

...

Johannes Wilm

• I'm trying to look at...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• [door opens, interchange between office worker and HS]

Johannes Wilm

• And I'm trying to look at what kind of policies you have.
  That.. what you.. what kind of policies you support..

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• right

Johannes Wilm

• and what you don't support and so on. Given current issues that
  you have in this country. I can read all the questions up first if
  you want me to.

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• No, just we'll go through them. I need to do it fairly quickly,
  cause I'm..

Johannes Wilm

• ok ok. Well the first one is about gentrification. I saw when I
  walked up here there were lots of signs... ehm.. what people asking
  for apart... like not to build more apartment buildings and that
  there was a lack of public housing.

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• What... What's your response to that?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Well, that is true. I mean, the Shankill road is a typical
  working class area.

Johannes Wilm

• Yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• It used to be that we had what was known as high-rise blocks of
  flats.

Johannes Wilm

• Yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And these were built by the housing executive. And we fought
  for years to get them demolished and the feeling being that we
  needed housing, not massive big tower blocks of flats.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah, yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And it seems to be that that's over 25 years ago, that the
  whole circle... it's done a complete circle now. And now that these
  luxury apartments are coming back. Whilst we welcome investment in
  the area, the thing being that the people in this area can't afford
  them. They're way beyond the price range of the people here.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And so the local people's needs needs to be met. So what we are
  saying: we're not opposed to a certain amount of apartments. But we
  want the sites that they build, split up, and that there should be
  a percentage of that would become affordable housing.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah, yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• That's the way we're lookin at that

Johannes Wilm

• Very good. Ehm... What about the public funding for roads and
  parks and so on. Is that ... Is that an issue for you here?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Not at the moment. We've just switching over... got our new
  assembly back in.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And... It has been an issue. I mean in the past we believe that
  the British government didn't put enough finance into roads and
  parks and various different things. But we now feel that we have
  for the first time ever an opportunity of our own politicians being
  able to seek and hopefully have sufficient funds to completely
  rehabilitate the whole of Northern Ireland. Now it's not gonna
  happen overnight.

Johannes Wilm

• hmm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• It's gonna take time. But I believe that we are now taking the
  first step towards achieving what we want to be... where we want to
  be.

Johannes Wilm

• ok. Ehm... What about industry? And I'm thinking Harland &
  Wolf, Shorts, Mackies, Like there has been has been some problems
  in keeping industrial jobs up here.

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Yeah, we lost thousands upon thousands of jobs. I mean Mackies
  is no more. There is no James Mackies; it's gone. Harland &
  Wolf is surviving, you know, on a couple of hundred people where it
  used to employ 30,000. The aircraft factory is still there,
  Bombardier, that's probably one of the most modern and best
  aircraft factories in the whole os western Europe, if not the
  world.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Very, very. And it's continuing to give employment. But whilst
  we lost jobs in the field of... of... eh... that type of a field,
  there's other jobs have been created. And at this given time, we're
  enjoying the lowest unemployment figures that we have had for over
  fifty years. So whilst we lost jobs, because of the peace and the
  investment that has been put in the computerized type jobs...

Johannes Wilm

• hmm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• The whole market has changed. From engineering type bit works,
  because that's... that's the facts across the whole of Europe. But
  with the modern technology that we now have. We're enjoying to be
  the lowest unemployment figures ever.

Johannes Wilm

• So I take it that you don't see any need for current action?
  And...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Oh yes, we do. You know, I'm not saying that we should sit
  back. I believe that there needs to be more apprenticeships
  signments. My biggest fears is that we have many skills in Northern
  Ireland. And my fear is that we're gonna lose those skills. Even
  the shipbuilding skilled and the engineering skilled. So I think
  the government need to take on a program where there is more
  apprenticeships, I mean even the skills that people don't
  recognize... I mean, because of the big changes that's taking off
  here in Northern Ireland, a lot of the jobs that are being created
  are in the building trade. I mean you would have brick layers, you
  would have plasterers...

Johannes Wilm

• mm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• ... carpenters, electricians. Now, at the moment we're having
  difficulty... I know for a fact that companies are having
  difficulties recruiting people.

Johannes Wilm

• mm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Because, those were trades that people shied away from. But now
  they realize that those are highly paid financial jobs. But what we
  need to do is to get the government to open up a training program
  where people can actually go in and... where people can be trained
  up as brick layers

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• ...and as plasterers, as carpenters. And they do it for the
  first couple of years, cause firms can't afford to take them on.
  But if the government opened up a training center, where the first
  two years would work to qualify them for their apprenticeship and
  then they can be farmed out to these companies and finish their
  trades there. I think it's very important that we do that.

Johannes Wilm

• hmm.. very interesting. What about the NHS service? Do you thin
  it's sufficient?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• No, I'm far from it. But I'm meaning I'm speaking like... Right
  across Europe, our national health service has fallen greatly
  behind. Probably we're worse of than anywhere in the rest of the
  United Kingdom. But again, we've just been announced a budget for
  this year for the health. And it's a far far greater improvement
  than what we've had from direct rule ministers. So I'm actually
  hoping that, because again of our own ministerial team taking over
  at Stormont, that they're treating health urgently. It's top of the
  priorities. Much has been. much will be done this year, but much
  much more needs to be done. There has to be put massive, massive
  amounts of finance put into our health, because we're fallen so far
  behind, that it's gonna take us years of just catching up with the
  rest of the United Kingdom.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, you were earlier talking about education. Another thing in
  education has also been the 11+ exam...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• which has lately been discussed. What's your position there.
  Should one keep the Northern Irish system?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• I.. I think personally that... this is only a personal opinion.
  It's one that splits even my own party. So you know, I don't wanna
  give any particularly hardline view on it. I think it's safe to say
  that eveyr avenue will have to be looked at as regards the future
  on the 11+. There is no point in scrapping the 11+, if we don't
  have something satisfactory to replace it with. And at this given
  time, it's as good an indicator as what we're gonna have.

Johannes Wilm

• Ok. yeah, very good. Ehm... What about drug problems and
  anti-social behavior?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Well, that is a big... I mean, I'm on the policely liaison
  committee, and drugs are a big. It's not as bad in Belfast and
  Northern Ireland in general as what it would be in Dublin or what
  it would be in Manchester or any of the other major cities across
  Europe, but the alarm bells are starting to ring. It is a problem
  and we can't just burry our head in the sand and think that it's
  not there. It is there.

Johannes Wilm

• hmmm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And we all need to be doing as much as we can to eliminate it
  because we're seeing too many young lifes destroyed and aah.. we
  all need the police, the community workers, the politicians, we all
  need to work together in harmony, to try and alliviate this
  horrible, horrible problem that faces all of us

Johannes Wilm

• yeah... Somewhat related, the BBC recently reported on a
  dramatic increase in teenage suicides...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• particularly in Northern Ireland.

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Yes, that's become a major source... I mean, just in this road
  alone this past while back, we've had nothing but people just...
  people who've known personally who you wouldn't have imagined and
  who have commited suicide. Now I think there is some of it that is
  related to drugs, but not all. I think it will be very wrong, I
  think we had a few, a few cases that were evidently related to
  drugs, but I mean, suicides are a big major problem. And again, the
  government need to, to be setting up councilors in that field and
  making available. If people are feeling down, there should be
  people they can go and speak to. A lot of work needs to be done.
  It's not for people like me. We need the experts to come in and be
  available, to assist the like of the Samaritans, who are a
  wonderful organization, who do a magnificient job. But they need to
  be more... to be given more finance that they can employ more
  concilors that go into the areas and talk and to make themselves
  available to people who would feel suicidal.

Johannes Wilm

• hm... Ehm, now the Shankill Mirror reports on eh.. a cut in
  4.8% of the budget of the Youth Service in the draft budget of the
  department of education. Is...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Yeah, well again, we're apauled with that; I'm personally
  apauled with that. And I will be working with the Shankill Mirror
  to highlight this. We, I mean, these are the very services where
  government should be pouring money into, I mean the Youth Serv..
  youth activity. When we spoke there about suicidals, and these are
  the very places that can help prevent suicides; can help people to
  keep of drugs. So it's wrong to be cutting services that are doing
  a duty for the people of Northern Ireland. So, we will be fighting
  to get that budget increased again.

Johannes Wilm

• ok... eh.. Another issue has been joy riding. That is
  when...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• when young teenagers do crazy stunts in their cars and then put
  videos of it on the internet

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Again, I was on a police meeting yesterday, and I brought this
  very subject up. W-we in-in protestant West Belfast don't have a
  lot of it, but w-we have noticed that over this past lot of years,
  it's on the increase, and I've actually spoke to the police and
  told them that we need to have a greater police presence in all the
  areas, because there are certain areas where it happens, you know
  where there are these hills and they're after a chase, so we've
  asked the police, and I've personally asked them to... to zoom in
  on this, and to have greater police presence, because we don't want
  it to get any worse than what it already is.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah... You mention the police. Do you generally have
  confidence that they are concerned about your area and...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah, I'll.. I'll

Johannes Wilm

• your issues?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• I think the.. My worry is that I don't believe there is enough
  police men. I mean from the Patton Report the police were cut by
  50% in numbers, and their su... As far as I'm concerned, there
  simply not just enough police men on the beat to cope. With all the
  areas... If you look at the whole multitude of problems that we
  have, you've drugs, you've joyriding, you've break-ins, you've
  anti-social behavior, you've attacks on our OAPs [Old aged
  pensioneers], so the police don't, in my opinion, have sufficient
  men on the ground to cover and to deal with all those problems. And
  again I raised that yesterday, and we will continously be raising
  it with our MPs to see if more finance can be made available, but
  most important of all, to increase the number of police we have on
  our in our areas.

Johannes Wilm

• ok. Last question question: Do you feel that the working class
  is sufficiently politically represented?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Not really, it's unfortunate it's not well. It's probably
  better represented now than it ever has been, I mean, if you go
  back thirty... over thirty years ago, when we had the like of the
  Unionist government in charge where they were middle class, and
  they didn't particularly have any worries about working class. They
  knew that people had no choice but vote for them, or you voted for
  a catholic... they actually played the orange card here with that,
  but now there still not enough, but I mean at the least they're in
  both parties, in the DUP and in the official unionist party and of
  course, my own party which is based... we are, you know working
  class in the Progressive Unionist Party. But others are taking a
  lead, and I think whilst their parties may not be directly what you
  would call working class, there are individual elected members
  within it that are trying to push the working class issues

Johannes Wilm

• ok, well thank you very much

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• you're very welcome, I hope you find it helpful

Johannes Wilm

• yeah